Audio Transcript
Ken Jones 0:00
Countess Elizabeth Bathory, also known as- known as the Blood Countess and Countess Dracula, was a noble woman and serial killer in 16th century Hungary. She was accused of torturing and killing hundreds of young women. The Countess avoided prison and execution due to her powerful connections, but spent the last four years of her life under house arrest in her own castle. However, her victims mostly servant girls remained voiceless. That is, until now thanks to our in-studio guest Gayle Brandeis, who tells their stories in her new book, 'Many Restless Concerns, the Victims of Countess Bathory Speak in Chorus' from Black Lawrence press. In the words of Rene Denfeld, who will be in conversation with Gayle tonight at Powell's, Gayle Brandeis is a miracle from the forgotten memories of murdered women. She's created a monument of hope, pain and demands for the justice of recognition. This is a startling, glorious, gorgeous book, read this book and be transformed. Gayle Brandeis, thanks for coming into KBOO.
Gayle Brandeis 1:02
Thank you so much for having me. It's really a pleasure to be here.
Ken Jones 1:06
Now, Gayle, I had not heard of Elizabeth Bathory before reading your book and my co-anchor Michele hadn't heard either. And I read that you hadn't heard either until your daughter asked for a list of notorious women in history. Can you explain how you learned more about Countess Dracula?
Gayle Brandeis 1:23
Sure. My daughter, when she was a teenager, was interested in women pirates and other women who kind of went outside of societal expectations throughout history. And she asked me to pick up various books on these women. And I just decided to thumb through one of these books. She asked me to purchase one day and found a chapter about Countess Bathory, who I had not been familiar with. And I found myself so haunted by her victims. You know, she is- she had reportedly killed up to 650 girls and young women. And I couldn't stop thinking about them and wondering who were these girls and women, who were these lives that she's so abruptly and violently ended? Who are these voices who have been silenced, and I couldn't get them out of my head. They started haunting me in a coral way. And I started writing poems in their voices, not thinking that it was going to lead to a book project, I thought maybe I would write a few poems. But they kept coming and I realized they needed more space. And in the process, I really felt as if it was an act of unsilencing them and hopefully bringing so much belated justice as well.
Ken Jones 2:46
Now what was it like hearing those voices? Renee, who you'll be in conversation with at Powell's I've had her on Between the Covers and we've talked about her most recent book, The Butterfly Girl, and-
Gayle Brandeis 2:58
Such a beautiful book.
Ken Jones 2:58
Yes for each of her novels she's actually heard voices and seen the main character. And that really got her the inspiration to write, was it anything like that for you to see the victims of the Countess Bathory?
Gayle Brandeis 3:10
For me, it was definitely more something I heard than saw, it, it took a while to kind of figure out how to visualize them. I had to do research because I was unfamiliar with the time period. But these places were very clear from the start. And it was almost this haunting you know, multi-voiced aria that, that was sort of singing through me and wouldn't leave me alone until I wrote it down. And I do find that when I write fiction, that's how my characters come to me. I start to hear them and start to follow them where they want to.
Ken Jones 3:45
I would imagine, Renee, and you will be talking about that tonight,
Gayle Brandeis 3:48
I imagine so, I'm really excited to talk with her. I love her and her work so much. And I feel like there is some intersection between this book and The Butterfly Girl because both have to do with missing and murdered young women and I think both really have hope at the very core of them even though they're difficult subjects.
Ken Jones 4:07
And giving voice to the voiceless, Renee's background, she was homeless, and she writes about, well, certainly in The Butterfly Girl, the butterfly girl herself is homeless. And Renee has said when she was on the streets, she felt she was invisible. She wasn't seen and she wasn't heard. I would imagine it was the same for Countess Bathory's, servants that she tortured and killed.
Gayle Brandeis 4:30
Definitely and especially after they started being killed their parents did report some of their murders or their reported that they were missing. And the powers that be didn't listen until noble girls and women started being killed because of the societal situation. It's- it was an additional injustice that no one seemed to care about these missing girls and women.
Ken Jones 5:00
Yeah, originally it was peasant- peasant girls and maids and then apparently the Countess didn't feel that was enough. So she opened up a gymnasium or something? A school for girls?
Gayle Brandeis 5:11
Yeah, a school for girls and the noble families were so happy to send their girls to her because they thought that these girls would learn how to- how to behave in court and become proper young ladies of society. And unfortunately, they met their end there instead.
Ken Jones 5:30
Now I can't help seeing the relevance of the book to what's happening now with the Me Too movement certainly in terms of women taking back their voices, and telling their stories. About midway through the book you write, and I hope I don't murder the the wonderful, lyrical prose here or poetry, the words, "it's only words for you, if you don't take them in this or something like it could happen to more women. More girls over and over, and over and over. If we don't speak of these things." That connect- connection must have been on your mind as you were writing the Me Too movement goes back several years.
Gayle Brandeis 6:05
Yes, when I started writing this, it was prior to the Me Too movement and I was really just focused on breaking into historical silence. But I actually set the project aside for a while I was working on it while I was pregnant with my 10 year old. And reading and researching about torture and murder just didn't feel like the right thing to do while I was pregnant. So, I set the project aside, and then my mother ended up taking her own life when the baby was one week old. And that of course consumed me, the grief and the loss and-
Ken Jones 6:43
And you wrote a book about that, The Art of Misdiagnosis
Gayle Brandeis 6:44
Now, that book that we just mentioned, The Art of Misdiagnosis, that came out about two years ago. Now when the book was released, I read on the web, there was a self interview that you did, you wrote for an online magazine called the Nervous Breakdown, in which almost every question you asked yourself was how did writing this book change you? Clearly a changed you in many ways. So I'd like to ask you, I'd like to ask you the very same question about this book. How did writing this book change you?
I ended up writing a book about that. Yes, so that's- that's what I needed to write over the next few years. I just needed to pour myself into figuring out my relationship with my mom making peace with her death. And once I finished that book, I felt really lost as a writer. Because that book was the most urgent and meaningful thing I had ever written. And I wasn't sure how anything I ever wrote could ever feel as necessary. But then I remembered this project, I had set aside - these girls that had haunted me. And I opened up those files, and they started singing to me all over again. And so I dove back into that project. And it did take on a new relevance as the Me Too movements developed. And I definitely saw, you know, some intersection between that time and this and the power of women's voices joining together to try to speak up against injustice, and hopefully make things better for the generations to come.
I think that writing this book, helps me realize that, that it's possible to write about hard things and still feel joy, that it's- that it's necessary, I think, to face hard things if we want to truly understand injustice, and I feel like maybe I'm not articulating this well.
Ken Jones 8:44
No, I know what you're saying.
Gayle Brandeis 8:46
I'm someone who used to run away from really hard stories. It was hard for me to face the more painful facts in life. I would turn off the radio if a painful story came on. And I think my mother's death, forced the blindfold- any blindfolds that I may have had against injustice off my eyes. And for me, having written my own story taught me that I was stronger than I know. Writing this story, I think, helps me deepen that sense that I need to keep facing the hard things. If I want to feel as if I'm a full human being in the world, and I've been an activist for a long time and I feel like facing the hard stuff is a way of deepening my activism. By facing really painful stories we can start to- it- we can break- when we break silences that's- that's how things will change. I think you know, Justice Brandeis who I have no relationship to. So the "greatest disinfectant is sunshine" when we shed light on painful stuff that's- that's when we can change it.
Ken Jones 9:57
You there was another interview I read that you did. You weren't interviewing yourself, you actually had somebody asking you questions. And they asked, What's the best writing advice you ever got? And you said it was somebody told you to write about the things that scare you.
Gayle Brandeis 10:11
Yes. And I think that's so important. That's where the real juice is. And I think that when we write about the things that- that scare us, we can embrace our full humanity more deeply. And we can start to release those things that we're afraid of as well, if we face them head on.
Ken Jones 10:28
Well Gayle, again, thanks so much for joining us at KBOO and I know you'll- you'll be on your way to Powell's soon to talk with Renee about the book.
Gayle Brandeis 10:36
Thank you so much for having me.
Ken Jones 10:38
We've been talking with Gayle Brandeis, author of the new book, 'Many Restless Concerns: The Victims of Countess Bathory Speak in Chorus' from Black Lawrence press. Gayle will be reading and signing books tonight at Powell's in downtown Portland at 7:30. You can find out more on her website, gaylebrandeis.com. This is Ken Jones for KBOO News in Depth
Transcribed by https://otter.ai