The Abe and Joe Talk Radio Show on 09/11/12

 Hi Joe,
I don't like using the word "conspiracy" these days either.  The word creates a closed conversation from the start.  SCAD (state crimes against democracy) is a current expression that encourages open conversations about politically sensitive topics.  
I enjoy your show.
Alice

FYI re Joe's mention this morning of Hales' & Smith's statements about flouridation during KBOO's recent Political Perspectives show, below are 2 sources that seem to indicate that not only has neither candidate yet taken a firm position but that they both might in fact be supportive of a more public process and perhaps a public vote. Therefore "we the people" should take this opportunity to push both of them to take a clear stand ASAP on whether they will actually support, or not, a "proper" public review & input process and also a public vote.
The 1st source is Brad Schmidt's 8/22/12 10:33am Oregonian article "Beer, marriage and fluoride -- how they tie in to Portland's mayoral candidates: Portland City Hall roundup".
Following that is a response by Colin Jones of the Smith campaign on Smith's Facebook site at 1:17pm, 9/9/12 to a question about Smith's position to "support an appeal <of> the Fluoridation Measure" which seems to clarify an apparent distinction between Smith's personal position in favor of flouridation from his policy position for a "proper review" and possibly public vote.
Note for the record that I was not able to find anything about flouride on either candidate's websites nor on Hale's Facebook site.
Respectfully submitted,
Ben Earle
 
OREGONIAN ARTICLE
"Beer, marriage and fluoride -- how they tie in to Portland's mayoral candidates: Portland City Hall roundup"
<http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandcityhall/2012/08/beer_marriage_and_fl...
By Brad Schmidt / The Oregonian -- last updated 8/22/12 10:33am
Charlie Hales and Jefferson Smith appeared on KBOO's Political Perspectives radio show last week. They were asked about their stance on fluoridating local drinking water, which serves about 900,000 residents in Portland, Gresham, Tigard and Tualatin.

Where do they stand?

"I'm inclined to support it. But I think there's not only the need for a complete discussion about this but also a little technical work that maybe still requires some care," Hales said during the program, noting possible issues for local beer makers. "Before we implement fluoride for the kids, we've got to make sure that we're not hurting one of the now greatest do-it-yourself industries in Portland."

Smith, meanwhile, said it's important for fluoridated water to pass a taste test -- something he thinks it will. He also said city officials need to look at "real science" and not ideology. And most noteworthy, he said his wife strongly supports the issue ... which has all but helped make up his mind"
 
SMITH FACEBOOK SITE
<https://www.facebook.com/forwardwithjeffersonsmith?filter=2>
Mark Otto posted toJefferson Smith

Saturday

* Can citizens of Portland appeal the Fluoridation Measure with you support?

Karol Otto
Saturday at 9:38pm

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReJhMxTJVyo
 
Colin Jones

Sunday at 1:17pm
Hi Mark and Karol, Colin from Jefferson's campaign here. Here's a bit of what Jeff has said on the matter:

"Fluoride is a tough one for me. Here are my thoughts:

1) I’ve always liked Portland’s water the way it is. It’s one of our real,
precious assets. I’ve never been wild about treating our water (although we already do in various ways). A year ago I heard from a local startup CEO who moved to Portland because of “the taste of the water.” This is not a scientifically informed view; I just love our water.

2) That said, the reality is that Portlanders are healthier than most of the country in nearly every regard except for dental health, and most reputable non-partisan groups (Pew Center and CDC to name two) have identified fluoridating water (not tablet prescriptions or swishes in school) as the single best solution. I have constituents and neighbors whose kids miss school days for tooth decay...kids who are embarrassed to smile. And I don’t see a path to sufficiently increase nutrition or dental care.

3) This vote looks to be scheduled well before I would become mayor, so I understand that what is helpful is to see how I think through problems. I would encourage the city and proponents to step up the public engagement on this, including an explanation of the effects of fluoridation (including taste tests if people wanted them) and a robust input process (including a public survey or citizen jury process -- and I don't hate a public vote as much as some). While public engagement is not an answer to every question, my view is informed by the former mayor of Salem, who told me the stories of fluoridation in Salem and Eugene. Salem had an inclusive public process...and still has fluoridated water. Eugene apparently did it quickly...and later a citizen initiative overturned the decision.

So, put more briefly, I think we should engage more people in this conversation -- and beyond proponents or activist critics. We should listen to and willing to be persuaded by science, not just the jerk of the knee -- and that goes for my knee too. Based on the data I have seen so far, I would weigh in favor in the context of that public process, or vote yes in a public vote."

Echoing Jefferson's comment on public process is my personal feeling that Portlanders should never feel the need to ask a politician if they can do something. Some of Jefferson's favorite anecdotes are stories of people doing something, not because of a benevolent politician but because it's the right thing to do. Which is why Jefferson believes that a public process is so important on the front end.